Ummmmmmmmm Hypocracy?

[jinx666]

I just have to ask...

How come when some on here create pro-religious postings/recruitments for bible study, etc, they request/demand that others respect their posts? But when someone makes a post that might be construde as "non-religious" or point out their veiws on the hypocricy of organized religions and the zealot followers who subscribe to them jump all over their shit judging and condemning them?

I've requested that you guys not jump all over my posts in the past, just to have you promptly ignore/disrespect my request and do whatever the hell you feel like anyways...

I guess I feel HIGHLY disrespected on this matter.

signed, -Can Hell Really Influence Seroius Trouble?

[Verbal]

Why don't you just PM me dude?

[Excessive]

The way I see it is there were no religious opinions posted. If your refering to Verbals post. There was nothing to debate or discuss. Only that if someone was intersted in discusing it they could go somewhere and do so in person.

But if someone starts posting ideas or opinions on religion, good or bad, others will want to post their ideas. And then it usualy results in someone being offended.

[DiscoDave]

IHow come when some on here create pro-religious postings/recruitments for bible study, etc, they request/demand that others respect their posts? But when someone makes a post that might be construde as "non-religious" or point out their veiws on the hypocracy of organized religions and the zealot followers who subscribe to them jump all over their shit judging and condemning them?
I think the difference is that he's not arguing for religion or making any sort of pro-religious point, or attempting to show hypocracy of athiests or anything...he's just looking for a support group, basically.

If you say that some group of people is hypocritical, you're inviting debate. Looking for a study group is quite a bit different.

In my own opinion, of course.

[jinx666]

Why don't you just PM me dude?
Because it was not aimed at you specifically, it is just a general inqury. (Albeit spurned by your percieved attitude in your post)


The way I see it is there were no religious opinions posted. If your refering to Verbals post. There was nothing to debate or discuss. Only that if someone was intersted in discusing it they could go somewhere and do so in person.

But if someone starts posting ideas or opinions on religion, good or bad, others will want to post their ideas. And then it usualy results in someone being offended.

It's not that there was anything to discuss, that's not the point. In the past I have shown immense restraint in my posts, then others prompt me for clarification as to what I mean. I clairify, and then all sorts of people jump down my f-ing throat about ideas that mean just as much to me as religious faith means to them. It's hypocritical and very disrepectful. It's upsetting to me that in past post people have felt that:

A: I might need saving.
B: I need their help in where to turn if that be my desire.
C: That the feeling I feel are wrong and immedeately not deserving of the respect I show your beliefs.

C being the most important aspect of what I mean in these posts. You guys aren't showing the behaivor your own faith deems appropriate, and that makes me sad.

[QuietStorm]

I AER OFENDED BY TIHS POST

U SHUDNT MAKE PSTS ABUT RELIJUN CUZ THEY JUS UPSET PEEPZ

Now that I've got that out of the way, there's a HUGE difference between saying, "My religion is right, your religion is wrong," and saying, "Hi, I've got this group for people of the same religion for me, show up if you want."

I used to post on a Christian message board where jackasses who destroyed legitimate debate posts made it against the rules for somebody to even MENTION the topics, simply because the admin thought it would turn into debate -- damnit, if you think masturbation is a sin, you shouldn't be able to post about it in the prayer requests! IT'S WRONG TO EVEN USE THE WORD!

That's not a direction I think anybody wants BLE to go. Until somebody starts debating on Jon's thread, I don't see the problem with it.


Oh, BTW... hypocrisy*, hypocrite*.

[DiscoDave]

...C being the most important aspect of what I mean in these posts. You guys aren't showing the behaivor your own faith deems appropriate, and that makes me sad.
This is a perfect example of the stuff that'll get people jumping all over you. It's also a perfect example of exactly that which Verbal was lacking.

[jinx666]

I think the difference is that he's not arguing for religion or making any sort of pro-religious point, or attempting to show hypocracy of athiests or anything...he's just looking for a support group, basically.

If you say that some group of people is hypocritical, you're inviting debate. Looking for a study group is quite a bit different.

In my own opinion, of course.


I'm referring to posts of the past...mostly. I come here for gaming, not bible study invitations. I respect verbals faith, but I have posted my feelings regarding non-ble/gaming events but no-one listens. I am aware it's not my decision to make, but I can't "push aside" how shitty I feel when posts like this are made... :shrug:

[QuietStorm]

Well, not to be pissy, but the thread title is Bible Study. So, unless you thought it was a Bible Study game (hahahahahahahah... I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to make one), why click on it if you don't like that sort of post?

[DiscoDave]

I'm referring to posts of the past...mostly. I come here for gaming, not bible study invitations.
I can understand that, and if he were posting that type of stuff on a daily (or maybe even weekly) basis I'd ask him to stop.

[Excessive]

It's not that there was anything to discuss, that's not the point. In the past I have shown immense restraint in my posts, then others prompt me for clarification as to what I mean.


That is the point. You call it clification, I still call it an opinion. If you post an opinion, its disrespectful to tell others they can not post theirs. Jon's post contained only a request for others with similar beliefs to get tegether outside of the forums to discuss it. I applaud his decision to do so. It should not offend anybody that he wants to do so in an envirnment where people will not feel that his opinions are being forced on them. Having his discussion arround like minded people will not hurt you or anyone else.

[jinx666]

Well, not to be pissy, but the thread title is Bible Study. So, unless you thought it was a Bible Study game (hahahahahahahah... I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to make one), why click on it if you don't like that sort of post?

Your arguement is old and barely worth responding to, change the channel, turn it off etc. etc. You could use the same argument about whats on t.v./radio but christians don't stop bitching about that do they?

[jinx666]

This is a perfect example of the stuff that'll get people jumping all over you. It's also a perfect example of exactly that which Verbal was lacking.


Could you clairify this statement for me?

I guess I'm also wondering what would be done if I wanted to advertise a Satanic Church meeting here...

[jinx666]

That is the point. You call it clification, I still call it an opinion. If you post an opinion, its disrespectful to tell others they can not post theirs. Jon's post contained only a request for others with similar beliefs to get tegether outside of the forums to discuss it. I applaud his decision to do so. It should not offend anybody that he wants to do so in an envirnment where people will not feel that his opinions are being forced on them. Having his discussion arround like minded people will not hurt you or anyone else.


I am only asking for the same respect when I display my opinions. I have yet to recieve the same treatment. in fact most of the posts I start or contribute to in any way regarding politics or faith, get closed.

I understand that Jon is brave for facing possible ridicule for his beliefs and posting them anyway, but his posts are respected while he himself has not shown mine the same respect. So I am wondering why many feel they can demand certain treatment they are not willing to extend others.

As for allowing or dis-allowing others to express opinions I do not share, you have me wrong. I will invite lively debate gladly, as long as I am shown the same courtesy as I extend to others. :tup:

As for hurting me, in the past I would have believed this statement, but you guys have hurt my psyche in the past by not agreeing to disagree with me. In the past members here HAVE turned it personal. So You were saying?

[DiscoDave]

Could you clairify this statement for me?
Sure.

Take a look at the following two statements.

"You guys aren't showing the behaivor your own faith deems appropriate, and that makes me sad."

"Hey guys, I'm doing a bible club, anyone wanna join?"

One of those statements is making an accusation that a certain demographic of people is being hypocritical...something that will naturally put people on the defensive.

The other makes no such accusations, nobody gets put on the defensive, and nobody cares (aside from people who actually want in the bible study group).

I guess I'm also wondering what would be done if I wanted to advertise a Satanic Church meeting here...
I'd think it was funny. As long as it had it's own thread and wasn't in Verbal's thread, I mean.

If you were to pick something more realistic...islamic, wiccan, jewish, whatever, then you'd probably get a response saying something along the lines of, "I don't know we have all that many ______-ish people here, but best of luck".

[QuietStorm]

Your arguement is old and barely worth responding to, change the channel, turn it off etc. etc. You could use the same argument about whats on t.v./radio but christians don't stop bitching about that do they?
Straw man and hasty generalization. My argument may be old, but at least it's not a logical fallacy.

[Shadow]

I guess I'm also wondering what would be done if I wanted to advertise a Satanic Church meeting here...
It might be laughed at a little b/c ppl would think it was a joke, but I doubt anyone would get mad.

[Excessive]

I am only asking for the same respect when I display my opinions. I have yet to recieve the same treatment. in fact most of the posts I start or contribute to in any way regarding politics or faith, get closed.

If you still dont understand the difference I can't help you.

[DiscoDave]

I am only asking for the same respect when I display my opinions.
This is the thing, though, he wasn't displaying his opinions.

Believe me, if his post was, "Christianity is cool and all other religions suck. Oh, and you athiests, haha....losers" then believe me...he'd get a very different response. From athiests AND christians, I would hope.

There's no reason for you to be upset here. If it's not clear to you now, I hope it becomes clear very soon.

[jinx666]

Sure.

Take a look at the following two statements.

"You guys aren't showing the behaivor your own faith deems appropriate, and that makes me sad."

"Hey guys, I'm doing a bible club, anyone wanna join?"

One of those statements is making an accusation that a certain demographic of people is being hypocritical...something that will naturally put people on the defensive.

The other makes no such accusations, nobody gets put on the defensive, and nobody cares (aside from people who actually want in the bible study group).


I'd think it was funny. As long as it had it's own thread and wasn't in Verbal's thread, I mean.

If you were to pick something more realistic...islamic, wiccan, jewish, whatever, then you'd probably get a response saying something along the lines of, "I don't know we have all that many ______-ish people here, but best of luck".


I wasn't focused on the fact that he is starting a bible club, it was this portion of the statement I was a little upset about...

Also guys, please no flaming or religious debates in this thread. And I mean period. If anyone responds with anything like that, I'm going to delete the thread and repost it. This is just a simple bulletin only targeted to people interested in it.

Thanks,
Jon

[edit: Any off topic posts in this thread will be deleted as soon as I see them. - DD]

It's the respect DEMANDED that bugs me. It's respect that has not been extended to others here in the past.

[QuietStorm]

But he's not demanding respect for his beliefs. He's demanding that people don't discuss it AT ALL. It's not just non-Christian beliefs that he's saying that about. I'd bet he'd do the same thing even if somebody came to the thread and said, "Yeah, we've got a lot of people around here who should go, lest they burn in Hell."

If you were to pick something more realistic...islamic, wiccan, jewish, whatever, then you'd probably get a response saying something along the lines of, "I don't know we have all that many ______-ish people here, but best of luck".
I don't know we have all that many Buddistish people here, but good luck.

[jinx666]

This is the thing, though, he wasn't displaying his opinions.

Believe me, if his post was, "Christianity is cool and all other religions suck. Oh, and you athiests, haha....losers" then believe me...he'd get a very different response. From athiests AND christians, I would hope.

There's no reason for you to be upset here. If it's not clear to you now, I hope it becomes clear very soon.

It clearly has been blown out of proportion thats for sure! lol! I was just pointing out my feelings regarding the whole thing. The funny thing about feelings is that they do not need to be based on any logic to be valid. Just like religious faith I guess.

Straw man and hasty generalization. My argument may be old, but at least it's not a logical fallacy.

It might not be a logical fallacy, but a logical arguement has no place here. This issue is based on how I feel about how I have been treated in the past regarding certain issues, and how others expect better treatment from those they have not themselves, respected in the past.

But hey! thanks for your input! no matter how much it dosen't help.

[DiscoDave]

This issue is based on how I feel about how I have been treated in the past regarding certain issues, and how others expect better treatment from those they have not themselves, respected in the past.
As long as you understand the difference between how you feel you've been treated and how you've actually been treated.

I'm sure every one of us has felt upset about things even though there was no real logical reason behind it.

[Shadow]

Hmmm, what happened to the past is in the past. Maybe we've learned from previous arguements not to jump down ppl's throats...

[QuietStorm]

It might not be a logical fallacy, but a logical arguement has no place here. This issue is based on how I feel about how I have been treated in the past regarding certain issues, and how others expect better treatment from those they have not themselves, respected in the past.

But hey! thanks for your input! no matter how much it dosen't help.
Now who's being hypocritical?

[Verbal]

*sigh*

Jinxy, I it really does seem like your problem lies solely with me..

In the past I have always tried to be respectful and nice about discussing religion or lack thereof with you. Remember all the cool talks we had about it? Standing outside at the LANs? I'm trying. =\

[Valusek]

This is bordering on the same issue as race almost.

I think that what...80% of Americans are christian in some form or another? (correct me if I'm wrong) and the other 20% are the minority. So its okay if your christian, and supposedly okay if your a satanist or jewish or whatever.

But even behind closed doors, they're looked down upon; the same as african americans and middle easterners.

Its not about whose right or whose wrong, or whose opinion matters most and whose doesn't...it's about the majority. If you aren't with the majority, then fuckin get lost!

And Jinx...you think outside of the box I think...you look at an issue from different angles from which the majority does. Therefore your views are perceived as a little weird (again by the majority).

You can deny it all you want. Yes, America is a free country, but racism still exists. Even in Bellingham.

[Valusek]

Hmmm, what happened to the past is in the past. Maybe we've learned from previous arguements not to jump down ppl's throats...

Ah, but the past is still relevant. We tend to repeat history. Today is the past, and tomorrow is the present; there is no future.

[Chuwawah]

Ahah.. guys, seriously, you are doing EXACTLY what jinx is protesting.. just respect his damn arguments and stop trying to make him out as the bad guy. FFS, humans arn't copied and pasted, we have DIFFERENCES!!1!!1!!!one1!!

[Excessive]

Its not about whose right or whose wrong, or whose opinion matters most and whose doesn't...it's about the majority. If you aren't with the majority, then fuckin get lost!


Add one more person to my ignore list. Have a nice day.

[night3218]

First of all, I hate these types of threads and usually stay away from them, but I think I'll get my feet wet in this one because it involves 2 friends of mine.

Jinx, I see where you're coming from. It can seem at times that people in general are more supportive of Christians over people who arent. That goes back to what Val was talking about the majority and stuff. But I dont think Jons thread should have sparked this kind of reaction and distress for you. I mean, like Dave said, he wasnt saying anything like "Christianity is good and everything else sucks" or anything. He was simply asking if anybody wanted to come to a bible study. If you made a thread asking if people wanted to come to an anti christianity study or something, its not like BLE'ers are going get mad and disrespect you for it. You would get the same amount of respect that Jon got.

The bottom line is, Jinx, is that although I agree with you that it can seem like people in America respect Christians more than other religions, Jons thread shouldnt be taken as offensivley as you have taken it to be.

Read over Jons thread again, and ask yourself, is it really that bad?

[ghrogels]

I didn't read anything in this thread, but I've heard things from people...

Anyways, sence I no longer am moderator on these forums I'm just going to ask everyone to stop posting in this thread and take this discussion to:

http://www.theologians.com

thanks :)

[DiscoDave]

I feel compelled to lock the thread, but quite frankly, I don't even understand what everyone is getting on about...

[QuietStorm]

I think what's going on is that Jinx is upset about other issues and Jon's thread just sparked him to make the post. I don't think he's really upset as we think about Jon's thread, in particular.

[jinx666]

I think what's going on is that Jinx is upset about other issues and Jon's thread just sparked him to make the post. I don't think he's really upset as we think about Jon's thread, in particular.

I'm not upset about his post at all. Jon and i have talked irl about religion and he believes in the church, whereas I believe I can have a direct relationship with god w/o involving any organization. I believe he and I respect each other on that issue.


First of all, I hate these types of threads and usually stay away from them, but I think I'll get my feet wet in this one because it involves 2 friends of mine.

Jinx, I see where you're coming from. It can seem at times that people in general are more supportive of Christians over people who arent. That goes back to what Val was talking about the majority and stuff. But I dont think Jons thread should have sparked this kind of reaction and distress for you. I mean, like Dave said, he wasnt saying anything like "Christianity is good and everything else sucks" or anything. He was simply asking if anybody wanted to come to a bible study. If you made a thread asking if people wanted to come to an anti christianity study or something, its not like BLE'ers are going get mad and disrespect you for it. You would get the same amount of respect that Jon got.

The bottom line is, Jinx, is that although I agree with you that it can seem like people in America respect Christians more than other religions, Jons thread shouldnt be taken as offensivley as you have taken it to be.

Read over Jons thread again, and ask yourself, is it really that bad?

No, It's not a bad thread. The issue I have a problem with is that he asked everyone to respect his thread by not spamming it. But when I have asked the same in the past, my request was ignored. I'm not pointing fingers at who to blame or whatever, many are guilty even myself. I was just attempting to point out that fact and it got all twisted around...I'm sorry Jon, I didn't mean to turn this into a whole "Religious" tennis volley. *sigh* Sooooooo Tired.

<3 to all.

[Verbal]

GROUOUOUOUP HUGGG!

Also PinxyJoo - I'm leaning more and more towards no church rather than church. lol. But that's another debate for another time. :p

[Valusek]

haha excessive. way to take me seriously on that.

yes, ignore everyone...that will make things better :(

[DiscoDave]

The issue I have a problem with is that he asked everyone to respect his thread by not spamming it. But when I have asked the same in the past, my request was ignored.
It's all about content. Had Verbal made such a request and posted aggressively, he would have been treated aggressively.

With all due respect, Jinx, you're a bit aggressive. ;)

I hope this is clear by now.

[M4LFUNCT10N]

This thread makes me sad.

I'm sorry if you've been treated bad in the past Jinx. I truly am. Christians are CALLED to be love their neighbors. While I don't agree with your beliefs, I respect that you believe them, and I will NOT look down on you for them. It is your RIGHT to believe whatever you want. I cannot expect anyone to share my beliefs. If Christians have put your down for your beliefs, then they were incredibly wrong to do so and they need to take a look at their own life.

Val, you made a comment that 80% of Americans are Christian. I'm going to be very bold to correct you here. 80% of Americans CALL themselves Christian. This will be a horrible analogy, but just how terrorist say that they are true Islamists(or Muslims?). They call themselves a part of the religion, however they completely butcher the belief system and take things out of context. Christians are those that have given their lives to follow Jesus and live by the example that he left. 80% of American's do not live that life. Heck, 100% of American's don't. But the Christians recognize that they will never be able to live 100% like Jesus did, but strive to live a life as close to his as they can.

I'm really bummed that I even posted in this thread. I stay away from debates where things get heated and people don't post respectfully. But I felt an apology was needed towards Jinx, even though I've never played a roll in the discussions where Jinx was offended.

[Valusek]

true that mal...and there's so many different branches of religion it's hard to keep track.

[Verbal]

I think everything's all good in this thread... no one has been offended, and I think I at least get the gist of what Jinxypoo was getting at. S'all good bruvas! lol

[Valusek]

i love all of you.

[Verbal]

i love all of you.

:hug:

[Verbal]

Add one more person to my ignore list. Have a nice day.

Um, Excessiiiivveee, that was sarcasm sir. :tup:

[Valusek]

I should have added an emotional revealing emoticon smiley at the end.

[QuietStorm]

GROUOUOUOUP HUGGG!

Also PinxyJoo - I'm leaning more and more towards no church rather than church. lol. But that's another debate for another time. :p
YES, COME TO THE DARK SIDE! *hisses*

Errr... yeah. Without going too deep into theology, the Bible says to have fellowship, not to follow the will of your pastor -- organized churches just create bloated power structures and completely unfounded dogma. ;)

[M4LFUNCT10N]

I think everything's all good in this thread... no one has been offended, and I think I at least get the gist of what Jinxypoo was getting at. S'all good bruvas! lol

Be a little careful making statements like that. Often times the offended person may not say that they were offended.

[Verbal]

Be a little careful making statements like that. Often times the offended person may not say that they were offended.

Well it was an assumption. I meant more that no one was intended to be offended, and I know I at least am not angry with Jinx at all or anything. We made nice nice over PM.

[QuietStorm]

I'm offended by your assertion that I'm not offended.

[night3218]

I'm offended by myself that I didnt think to do this new desk setup sooner.