Anything Star Wars

[Stumanji]

Star Wars: The Phantom Menace is on FOX right now, so I'm in a bit of a Star Wars mood.

I began thinking, "Man, this movie had a lot of potential, why is it not as good as the original trilogy's installments?" So, I put together a list of things I think would have made it near the quality of the original series.

1. Subtitles - The original trilogy had a number of alien species that did not speak "Basic" (What we call English). Jabba the Hutt, Greedo, and Chewbacca had translations provided for the viewer (through subtitles or Mr. Solo). One thing painful about SW: EP I is the Nemodians (?) and the Gungans speaking a broken or heavily accented Basic. Let them talk in their own language, and provide subtitles when necessary (You don't need to put "Ahhhhhhhh!" or "Oh no!").

2. Jar Jar Binks - Get rid of this character completely, or cut down his screen time big time. If Lucas followed Change #1 (above) then perhaps JJB wouldn't be so annoying. However, his clumsiness was overplayed.

3. The Battle Droids - They were cool. I liked them. But I don't think they needed to talk to each other. They're machines, they obviously receive some sort of informational signal (from the Droid ship), so why would they need verbal commands? The Battle Droids would have been more intimidating and mysterious had they communicated in silence (or maybe a little light blinking a sort of code). The only time I would have allowed them to speak is when they were communicating to things that did not share their signal (non-machines, different droids).

4. The Jedi Council and The Senate- The Council, if I had my way, would have been more intimidating, yet respectful, and the scenes would have had a quicker pace and would have been much more dramatic. The scenes with the Senate would have been far less reliable on CGI (the floating things? Didn't people worry about power outages sending planetary representatives to their deaths?) and more reliable on drama. I would have made these scenes as dramatic as the court room scenes in A Few Good Men.

5. Anakin and Padme- I felt that, not only is Jake Lloyd (Anakin) a sub-par actor (he's a kid, true, but there are better kid actors out there) but Lucas put too much pressure on him in this Episode. Personally, I would have stressed the friendship between Padme and Anakin. They're both kids, and likely they would have acted that way (no kid is THAT mature, 24-7). Padme shouldn't have been leading an attack on the fortress (she's 14 for crying out loud), and Anakin's role in the Droid Ship battle would have contained little dialogue with R2, and no one-liners. He's 9. He's not witty.

Those are the 5 changes I would make to improve Episode I.

[DiscoDave]

:rup:

Ender and I occasionally bash heads on this topic. Ender claims George Lucas doesn't know how to direct...I think he's a fine director, but he can't write decent dialogue to save his life.

Attack of the Clones had exactly ONE well written line...when Padme states that Anakin will "always be the little boy she knew from Tattoine". Unfortunately he appears to stumble into that line because the he apparently didn't know that hearing that biting line is not much better than hearing, "If I had to choose between having sex with you and murdering my own family, I'd buy my parents life insurance." I have no problem accepting alien races, a magical "force", and talking puppets...but believing a guy could hear that line from a woman who goes on to be romantically interested in him? Over the course of a couple weeks? That's no longer Science Fiction...that's "Hyper-Fictional Science Fiction".

One talent Lucas does have is extracting horrible, horrible performances from solid actors. Don't get me wrong...you point out Jake Lloyd for giving a terrible performance and indeed he did. It's not just that it's a bad performance, but it's "on the virge of warping the space-time continuum bad", but I wouldn't be surprised if, under the guide of a better director, he would be far more believable.

The latest star wars movies are full of really good actors, but there's not a single decent performance in the lot of them. They're all wooden and dry, and anytime they try to be any different, it feels entirely forced.

True, Harrison Ford did a pretty good job with what he was given in the original Star Wars, but he did so by rejecting lines from George Lucas and coming up with his own stuff (example: When Leia tells Solo that she loves him, the script had Solo reply with "I love you too." Han Solo? Saying "I love you too"? WTF?).

Now, however, either nobody wants to challenge Lucas' saga, or Lucas doesn't want anyone hampering with his "vision"....or both. Either way, the losers are us. *shrug*

Gotta give Phantom Menace credit for one thing, though...the lightsabre fights were top notch. :rup:

[Ender]

As annoying as Jake Lloyd is, I think the older version of Anakin managed to be more annoying. :mad: I should have been Anakin. ;)

I don't remember bumping heads too much on this issue with you Dave, mostly just that I thought Ep1 was better than Ep2. And Lucas's bad directing wasn't the main area in that regard, but that he's a poor writer, and couple that with mediocre directing and you've got a limitless supply of B movies.

and the nack for making good actors give bad performances is so noteworth that they should consider making an Oscar for it cause it's incredible! ;)

My biggest complaints centers around all those things too though. Anytime you get ONE person in charge of writing, directing, producing, editing and the list goes on, you're going to have some seriously bad issues in a movie. Not that Lucas was DIRECTLY responsible for all those, but you know darn well that he had his iron fist over the people helping him worse than Hitler ever did with his Nazis. :)

But in the end, I like Ep1 better than Ep2. And this because Jake isn't as annoying the older anakin, the lightsaber battle with Ob1 and Maul is about the coolest sword fight in the history of movie making evar, and the Yoda lightsaber battle just ruined much of his character to me. That guy shouldn't even have to hold his saber in his hand. :mad:

[DiscoDave]

It's not just that I think he's a poor writer. I think he's the worst successful writer in the industry. I think _I_ could write better dialogue than he could.

I'm a little torn on if I like Episode 1 or Episode 2 more. Episode 1 has 30 minutes of really good movie. Episode 2 probably has about the same goodness, but it's spread out more so the good parts aren't as good and the bad parts aren't as bad (excepting some particularly lame dialogue).

[Ender]

Yes, I to think you could write better movies. But how to write bad movies and get famous for it?? That's where his true genius comes in. :)

[Stumanji]

Y'know what annoyed me in Ep I:

When the Battle Droid was talking to Qui-Gon Jinn and said, "No... wait... uh... You're under arrest!"

What person would program their droids to say "Uh" or "Um"???

[Ender]

excellent point. Though, at the time that I watched it it seemed to fit in the Star Wars Universe so I didn't really notice it. But now that you mention it.

Come to think of it though, c3po has a bit too much personality for a robut. :shrug:

[Excessive]

Originally posted by Ender
Come to think of it though, c3po has a bit too much personality for a robut. :shrug:

That’s true. But C3PO was programmed to be a protocol droid. Programmed to interact with intelligent species.

Battle droids just destroy stuff. But who knows. Maybe it is just so easy to do that they put it in all droids. Maybe their brains are generic to a large selection of droids and they just make a couple changes. Such as they have to follow orders no matter what.

[Stumanji]

C-3PO totally took over for Jar Jar Binks in Episode II. Man, he was ANNOYING during the Geonosis scenes. Not funny at all, just annoying.

"I'm beside myself."
"Oh, what a drag."
"Die you Jedi Dogs! Oh, what am I saying?"

Gah!!! Lucas, let me have some creative control on your third installment, you punk ass.

[Ender]

Originally posted by Stumanji
C-3PO totally took over for Jar Jar Binks in Episode II. Man, he was ANNOYING during the Geonosis scenes. Not funny at all, just annoying.

"I'm beside myself."
"Oh, what a drag."
"Die you Jedi Dogs! Oh, what am I saying?"

Gah!!! Lucas, let me have some creative control on your third installment, you punk ass.

heh...for some reason I totally found those funny. Right in line with good ole cheesy SW lines! :D

[Airstotle]

They were funny, but in the totally wrong way.

[Stumanji]

After some browsing on the internet, I got a hold of George Lucas' original plot synopsis for Star Wars (A New Hope). Here are some interesting ideas not seen in 1977's classic film:

The Adventures of Luke Starkiller Part One:
-- The original name for Tatooine is Utapau.
-- Luke could see the opening space battle from his landspeeder on Utapau.
-- The planet destroyed by the Death Star was called "Organa Major".
-- The planet Darth Vader called "home" was Alderaan.
-- In a "Crystal Chamber" on Alderaan, Darth Vader discusses the strength of the Force with "Seth" Lords.
-- Luke had to convince Ben Kenobi to help him rescue Princess Leia (in the film, it's the other way around).
-- The Pirate Starship (aka Millenium Falcon) wasn't captured by a tractor beam, but instead disabled in a space fight, and boarded while orbiting Alderaan.
-- The rescue lead by Han Solo, Luke "Starkiller", Chewbacca, Ben Kenobi and "the robots" (R2, 3PO) originally took place on the planet of Alderaan, where Leia was held prisoner.
-- During the rescue mission, Ben Kenobi encounters and disables Sith Students and their Teacher... Apparently, Alderaan was a place of training for Sith Lords. He then steals the Sith's "Kiber Crystal" (significance: unknown).
-- Ben Kenobi survives his encounter with Darth Vader (actually, he survives the whole film!).
-- The Rebels escape in the Pirate Starship, and bail out in escape pods to the Fourth Moon of Yavin's surface, and are then lead to the Massassi Outpost (the Rebel base, I assume).
-- The Death Star pursues the Rebels back to the Fourth Moon of Yavin.
-- Chewbacca fought alongside Luke in the battle on the Death Star.
-- Luke pulls the Kiber Crystal during the final Death Star run, challenging Darth Vader. Han Solo then saves Luke by blasting Darth Vader and the other imperials on his tail. Luke destroys the Death Star, and Vader "limps back to Alderaan".

[Verbal]

Aye, I also think that Georgy boy can't direct. The best Star Wars movie was Empire Strikes Back, and was the only one not directed by Mr. Lucasthingy! Coinkidinky? I think not!

[Ender]

Originally posted by Homeslice
Aye, I also think that Georgy boy can't direct. The best Star Wars movie was Empire Strikes Back, and was the only one not directed by Mr. Lucasthingy! Coinkidinky? I think not!

Yeah, Empire is my fav too...but Return was also not directed by George.

[Stumanji]

Stumanji's Non-Biased Lightsaber Fighting Ranks
1. Yoda (0-0-1) ties Count Dooku (Darth Tyranus) (2-0-1)
3. Obi-Wan Kenobi (2-1-1)
4. Darth Maul (1-1-1)
5. Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker (1-3-1) ties Luke Skywalker (1-1).
7. Qui-Gon Jinn (0-1-1)

Explanation:
This is based solely on a Jedi or Sith's skill with a lightsaber in a one-on-one battle against a fellow Jedi or Sith. For those reasons, we do not see Mace Windu or other New Trilogy Jedi that did not square off against a fellow Force-friendly foe. It is not based on fancy moves (Darth Maul, Yoda) or bad ass appeal (Darth Vader), but rather on the outcome of the fight.
** Both fighters walk away from the fight = DRAW.
** One fighter dies or is injured to an extent that they can no longer defend themselves = LOSS.
** Fighter kills or immobilizes enemy = WIN

1. Yoda ends his only match (so far) in a draw. Dooku never lost, therefore he qualifies for first by default. Since Yoda ends in a draw with Dooku (who beat Kenobi and A. Skywalker), he must be considered equal.

3. Obi-Wan defeats Darth Maul (ep. I), loses to Count Dooku (ep II), defeats Anakin Skywalker (ep III). His "death" in Ep IV must be considered a DRAW, since he was not defeated by, nor did he defeat, Darth Vader. His defeat of Maul and A. Skywalker automatically put him ahead of both.

4. Darth Maul ended one match against Qui-Gon Jinn in a draw, the rematch resulted in a Maul victory, but celebration was cut short, as was Maul by Kenobi's saber.

5. Darth Vader/A. Skywalker loses once to Dooku (ep II), and once to Kenobi (ep. III). He also loses to Luke Skywalker (ep. VI), but nets one victory over his son, Luke Skywalker (ep. V). Since Luke was even against his father, they must be even in skill.

7. Qui-Gon Jinn did not win in two fights against Maul. He ranks last for his lack of success.

[Ender]

excellent deduction.

:grumpy: I still don't think yoda should have even had to pull out his light saber. :grumpy:

And the fact that they let him *tie* Dooku? rubbish...there goes all my childhood dreams of the invincible Yoda who gave himself up to death in old age because nobody could beat him...course if that was the case, maybe he wouldn't have been hiding on Dagobah from the Emperor. :erm:



Speaking of other nerdiness, I enrolled in a Literature class next quarter which focuses on JR TOLKIEN! :woot:

[Stumanji]

I think, had Anakin and Obi-Wan not been there, that Yoda would have ended up defeating Dooku...

But I agree with you that Yoda shouldn't have even needed to pull his lightsaber. We all saw how deadly the Emperor was in the original trilogy using JUST the Force. I'd like to think Yoda is the same.

[Ender]

Agreed. :yes:

[Ender]

THIS BABY! (http://www.bellinghamlan.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=6063#post6063):woot:

[Ender]

Originally posted by Stumanji
I think, had Anakin and Obi-Wan not been there, that Yoda would have ended up defeating Dooku...

But I agree with you that Yoda shouldn't have even needed to pull his lightsaber. We all saw how deadly the Emperor was in the original trilogy using JUST the Force. I'd like to think Yoda is the same.

Although I think that they were trying to show that in Ep2 (didn't convince me though). By having Dooku use the blue force lightning on Yoda and Yoda just catching it...kinda like saying certain weapons begat certain times for greatest advantage. Luke didn't know how to catch the blue stuff from the Emperor so his lightsaber was useless, but since yoda did, the lightsaber was the only way to determine a victor in a battle was to duel with the sabers.

I'm sure that's what they were trying to say, but I don't have to like it! And I don't! Yoda should have been able to force throw Dooku to the Sarlaac!!! ;)

[Stumanji]

Is there an FTP Upload folder or something?

I have the shaky cam recording of the Episode III video that George Lucas showed to people doing commercial tie-ins (Pepsi, Taco Bell, y'know... that sort of thing). It's a short video, but it shows some interesting pre-digital effects shots.


Here's a few pictures from the video -
(these are blown up 300%, so they're not entirely clear)

[Ender]

We don't have one yet...but coming soon to a BLE website near you! An ftp server! :woot: But ssshshH!! don't tell anyone...it's a secret!

[Stumanji]

Pretty gruesome picture of Anakin Skywalker after he gets pulled from the lava pit in Episode III.

Only click on this link if you don't mind a huge visual spoiler!

BBQ'd Anakin Skywalker and a look at Episode III villain General Grievous (http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/display.cgi?id=17163)

General Grievous is supposed to be some bad-ass general of the seperatist army... or so I read.

Cheers.

[Stumanji]

New Star Wars News:

1. The release date for Episode III has been announced:

Thursday, May 19, 2005

2. The DVD Box Set of the Original Trilogy has a release date attached to it finally.

September 21, 2004


Personally, I'm going to wait for the 6-Movie Box Set. As big of a Star Wars fan as I am, I've never owned any of the movies, other than Ep. I on VHS (which was a gift). I've just been waiting for a complete set (after the announcement of the prequels).

[Stumanji]

Hey, Nerds... Someone talk Star Wars with me and Ender, you nerds. I know you nerds like this. It's the backbone of Nerd-dom... all Nerds like Star Wars, alright.

So, dust off your Boba Fett helmet, and jump in the conversation.

[Excessive]

I don't fit in with you star wars bashers. I liked all the star wars movies. I don't think you guys would be be happy with any other movie after the first three.


I also liked all 3 Matrix movies. :nerd:

[Stumanji]

Listen, duder, I'm a SW Fan. I enjoy the films... Everyone of them... But, I like to think that Ep I and Ep II could be better...

And, like you, I also liked all three Matrix Movies.

[Blitzkrieg84]

I think the biggest problem with the new movies, besides GL's totalitarianism over the project, is the lack of his producers telling him that his ideas should be tweeked. Rick McCallum and the rest remind me of Ruby Rod's posse from the 5th Element...telling George how genius he is when he decides to make Jar Jar a main character. If anything, I would love to see some GL produced Star Wars spin-off movies, directed by totally unattached people. How cool would it be to see a Kill Bill type Jedi movie? Anyways, I really hope Ep 3 justifies the first 2 movies. I am tired of saying, "wait till the third one comes out and then judge it". 6 years is too long for that crap.

[Blitzkrieg84]

I also liked the 3 Matrix movies and I love each one of my SW movies...but the new episodes are kind of like the red-headed step child you need slap because annoying things always pop out of its mouth.

[Stumanji]

:rofl:

[Excessive]

I hated Kill Bill. Too much artistic bullshit. I don't need a mini Anime film in the middle of my action movie.

If I were George Lucas I would not have wanted to give up much control. After all it was his universe. It’s his to describe how he wants. Not like we want.

But I do think it would be cool to see some spin off movies with different characters. The Star Wars movies take place in only a few years, while the timeline for that universe is huge. Lots of potential for other movies. But I think that people may have formed too many of their own ideas about what should be right and wrong in that universe. That would make it hard for another movie to gain acceptance.


Oh and let me be the first to say Welcome to the forums Blitzkrieg84.:wave:

[Stumanji]

:dance: Blitz is my Brother :dance:

[DiscoDave]

Originally posted by Excessive
I hated Kill Bill. Too much artistic bullshit.
I'm really looking forward to the next one, but I don't really remember liking the first one, for the same reason.

:bulb:

[Blitzkrieg84]

Thanks for the Welcome Excessive


Regarding Kill Bill, what I loved about it was that it was like a cheesy Kung Fu movie. I loved that the fighting was over the top and the acting was overdone. I liked that he used different styles to tell different parts of the story. Basically it is just a good film to just watch and enjoy. I mean I like the Patriot but the inaccuracies in its history just about kill any pleasure I derive from. Come on? British Soldiers burning down a church of still British citizens? What gives.

[Stumanji]

Bringing this thread BACK to Star Wars:

Star Wars OT DVD Specs (http://www.cinescape.com/0/editorial.asp?aff_id=0&this_cat=Video+%26+DVD&action=page&type_id=&cat_id=270352&obj_id=41317)

From what I've read here and there, they've got a different style of Darth Vader outfit for Episode III...

I'm wondering wtf they mean by that.

[Blitzkrieg84]

Yeah sure...now you try to stay on point!

[Verbal]

um. . . yeah have any of you hear those "rumors" of Episode 7, 8, and 9? I can't decide if I am happy or insanely pissed off .....

[Stumanji]

Which rumors?

There WILL be Episodes 7, 8, 9

OR

There WON'T be Episodes 7, 8, 9

[Verbal]

Yes.

lol the one that says there WILL be episode 7 8 and 9.

[Stumanji]

If they make 7,8,9, I'll only be happy if George Lucas doesn't direct them, and someone helps him write them... cuz I'm not liking his latest stuff.

There are some pretty interesting stories that take place after Ep 6, so perhaps they can adapt one of those.

Afterall, it's not like the Death Star held every major bad guy in the SW universe... plenty of Imperials left.

[DiscoDave]

I'd like to place a restraining order on George Lucas preventing him from getting within 200 feet of any pen and paper.

[Verbal]

Originally posted by DiscoDave
I'd like to place a restraining order on George Lucas preventing him from getting within 200 feet of any pen and paper.

:rofl:

I'll back you up there! :rup:

[Stumanji]

Yeah, no doubt. Lucas = bad writer

I'm glad he created the whole Star Wars Universe, but man, his stuff is really lacking these days.

[Verbal]

Originally posted by Stumanji
Yeah, no doubt. Lucas = bad writer

I'm glad he created the whole Star Wars Universe, but man, his stuff is really lacking these days.

Yeah, that seems to be the common opinion today, however, how many people can't sit down and enjoy one of his new star wars movies just for the entertainment, instead of as a Star Wars movie? I know I can, but when I watch it as a Star Wars movie, the whole thing just drives me crazy. But honestly, don't you guys think that the new ones were kinda fun? I personally LOVED Episode 1, the podrace rules, the last battle sequence with Obi-Wan and Darth Maul was spectacular, Ewan McGregor and Liam Neeson did amazing actings jobs, you get the smug feeling that in the next movie Jar Jar is going to be the downfall of the Republic. :D But yeah, it also did lack as a Star Wars movie, especially with Jake Loyd playing Anakin. . . that was just sad. :no:

[Stumanji]

Fan-made Episode III Trailer (http://www.lathamfilms.com/ep3.html)

Note: You'll need to click on the link on the error page a few times if it does not load (for some reason, this works... not sure why).

Fan Made Episode III Trailer in LEGO-mation (http://www.kontraband.com/index.asp?p=movies.asp?ID=865)

Voice Acting = sub-par, but really entertaining, considering it's done with Legos...

[Verbal]

Wow, it's impressive how they actually achieved a likeness between Anakin in Episode III and Mark Hamil of Episode IV! Well done LucasArts! :rup:

[Stumanji]

Star Wars: Episode III (http://www.starwars.com/episode-iii/bts/production/news20040724.html) title revealed...

Hope the film can live up to its title.

[Valusek]

I want an ewok :(

[Stumanji]

Originally posted by Valusek
I want an ewok :(

Don't we all?

[Excessive]

Originally posted by Valusek
I want an ewok :(

What would you do with it?

nevermind, I don't want all the details.:no:

[Chuwawah]

just the right height...
:eek: :hump:

[Stumanji]

Bumpinating the country side, bumpinating the peasants!

Anyone get the original trilogy on DVD?

Some juicy footage of Episode III on the supplimental disc...

I should say, it's juicy footage of behind-the-scenes on Episode III, but you get a nice look at Obi-Wan and Anakin trying to slice each other up.

[Stumanji]

In the spirit of the very first post of this thread, I've created a sequel!

FIVE CHANGES FOR Attack of the Clones
This movie warrants more than 5 changes, but these are the ones that come straight to my mind...

1. Anakin and Padme - Part 2 - This time around, it's not the actor that did a bad job. Christensen is a good actor with a lot of emotion, and he's athletic enough to pull off Anakin's physical skills. What Lucas did in Ep II was make him a whiner. He whines all the time. This is Anakin Skywalker, aka Darth Vader! This guy needs to be cocky, confident, and arrogant. Not whiny, submissive, and annoying. He should have been far more confident in his interactions with Padme. Write the character as a kid trying to impress a girl. Have more intimate moments between the two. One suggested sequence: When Anakin busts into Padme's room and slices those worms, Obi-Wan jumps out of the window... an "innocent" touching of Padme's face, with her hand brushing his, then his sudden realization that he has to save Obi-Wan... it would be romantic (the touch) and funny (Obi-Wan). Instances like this would have worked much better in convincing the audience that Anakin and Padme were in love - as opposed to the forced laughs and silly conversations the two had.

2. You killed my mother, you dirty Tusken! - This was a great chance for Lucas to illustrate the destructive power of Anakin Skywalker. Instead of showing the extent of Anakin's rage, we get three relatively weak kills, and a cut to Yoda frowning. Meh. Instead, show Anakin full of rage slicing up the women and children, brutally slaughtering the men, torching the huts, wrapping up his mother with tears down his face - a great opportunity to give some real depth to Anakin. Sometimes showing (the above) is better than telling ("I killed them all. Even the women and children.")

3. Saving Master Kenobi - Once Obi-Wan flies out of the window, several changes could be made to the scene that follows to make it less a spectacle and more of a display of Jedi skills. The scene is fine up until when Anakin catches Obi-Wan. Their dialogue is lame and doesn't fit the scene well. The line about wit-vs-lightsaber I could do without, or perhaps in a different scene. Change #1 - When the suspect shoots the power station, causing a lightning storm effect, both Jedi should have ignited their sabers, to catch the electrical bursts and save themselves from the shock. Change #2 - Anakin's fall was just a bit too far for my tastes. At the speed he was falling, he would have obliterated that vehicle once he hit it. The fall shown in the trailer is much better (about 3 seconds of falling) and a bit more believeable. Change #3 - It would have been a much better display of Anakin's skill, had he landed on the craft cleanly, deflected a few of the suspect's shots with his saber, attempted at slicing the ship a few times, THEN lose his saber. Remember, this guy is essentially the Michael Jordan of Jedi. I'm tired of being told so, I want to see it.

4. Mace Windon't and the Motivations of Fett- Wow, could he have been less impressive? This is Samuel %$&# Jackson. Where's our bad-*** Jedi? His lines are cheesy, and his action is too brief and unimpressive. Acting? Not great. Jackson has never been an A+ actor, but Lucas lowered him to a D+. Watch him in the scenes with Palpatine at the beginning of the film. He forces a smile, and it quickly fades away. Not believeable at all. Changes would be made to his dialogue, and especially to his role on Geonosis. There, once he confronts Dooku and Fett, he'd get some serious Jedi-butt-kickin' moves. Have him have a brief but impressive duel with Dooku, which is interrupted by Jango Fett. Also, why oh why is Fett challenging Windu? Obviously, Fett wants a challenge. He thinks, "A Jedi kill would be rather impressive. A Jedi Master would be even better." So, why not a brief exchange between Dooku and Fett.

::: Dooku stops Fett from entering the lower arena. :::
Dooku: "You are a gifted killer, my friend. But a Jedi Master is out of your league."
Fett: "I suppose there is only one way to find out how good I really am."
::: Fett flys out to the lower arena and engages Windu :::
Dooku: "Fool."

Okay, so my dialogue isn't much better. But, it'll shed some light onto why Fett would attack one of the better Jedi, especially since he can basically take off with Boba and live to fight another day.

5. Yoda vs. Dooku - Dooku is undoubtedly a pimp with the sword. Though not as flashy as Darth Maul, he is a gifted swordsman. His style of fighting is much more fluid, artistic - like fencing. Though many probably didn't think this, I picture it as a nod to his days as a Jedi. While Darth Maul was probably not a Jedi at any point in his life, Dooku was - which explains his lack of "Jedi-Must-Die-This-Instant" style of fighting. Less aggressive, more patient. Yoda, on the other hand, should have been an illustration as to the strength of the Force. I think it would have had more power if he didn't pull out his lightsaber at all. Instead, when Dooku attacks him, he simply dodges, ducks, jumps, and avoids all attacks with relative ease. For a moment of humor, a smack on Dooku's head with his cane, followed by the line, "Much to learn you still have, I see." More dodging, ducking, flipping... then at the last second, Yoda pulls out his saber, and cuts Dooku's saber handle in half in one stroke. This is the point when Dooku collapses the structure threatening to crush Skywalker and Kenobi. This is a masterful display of the Force and skill with the saber on Yoda's part -- but really shows that he's just as good with only the Force as anyone... ever. If Anakin is Michael Jordan, then Yoda is Wilt Chamberlain.

[Airstotle]

"Sometimes showing (the above) is better than telling ("I killed them all. Even the women and children.")"


Yeah, maybe. But then you lose the rating they strive for and made the franchise a success in the first place. I literally had my 12 year old nephew stand up and leave this part of the movie because it distrubed him so much. I was pleased it did - only because we do not need to see women and children savaged. Ever.


BTW- My problem with the Dooku get away in the end....Yoda. While cinematically the motion of the hands etc. when conjuring up the force to prevent the structure from pummeling Anakin and Obi is powerful - it is totally worthless in my mind. And if Yoda had to "struggle" like that to prevent the fall of the structure... where is the sweat on his brow 30 years later while pulling an X-wing outta the swamp? Yoda, IMO, should be able to do these things with ease and whilst yawning back boredom.

[SuperDude]

I thought this thread died and got run over by a truck.

[Stumanji]

Thank you for your constructive comments, Now-Less-Than-SuperDude. :rdown:

While cinematically the motion of the hands etc. when conjuring up the force to prevent the structure from pummeling Anakin and Obi is powerful - it is totally worthless in my mind. And if Yoda had to "struggle" like that to prevent the fall of the structure... where is the sweat on his brow 30 years later while pulling an X-wing outta the swamp? Yoda, IMO, should be able to do these things with ease and whilst yawning back boredom.

Yeah, I agree. Also, why didn't he just toss the thing off to the side? Why hold it directly above the two fallen Jedi? Catch it, push it off to the side, let it fall harmlessly to the floor.

As far as the Tusken Raider scene goes, perhaps showing the slaughter of the women and children would be a bit much... but there's a point to showing the general slaughter of that tribe. It's supposed to be tragic, Anakin's fall... and I don't think Lucas has made it tragic at all. We're supposed to like this guy, and feel bad that he went to the Dark Side. But, Anakin has been nothing but an annoying and arrogant whiner. The scene in question would be a somewhat effective way to illustrate the tragedy, and the pain in watching the scene would make us cringe and reflect on the ways of the Sith (evil!). Perhaps that's asking a lot, actually... :dance:

[Stumanji]

Found this at Aintitcoolnews.com --

Mel Brooks: I'm writing myself back into the Spaceballs sequel that I'm now writing, so you haven't seen the last of my face. Why another Spaceballs? It wouldn't feel right to have anyone else play Yoghurt and the first one was the best experience I've had making a movie since Blazing Saddles.

Playbill: When can we expect that?

Mel Brooks: Best case scenario: a week before the new Star Wars opens. Worst Case Scenario: a year after the new star wars opens.

[Airstotle]

Found this at Aintitcoolnews.com --

Mel Brooks: I'm writing myself back into the Spaceballs sequel that I'm now writing, so you haven't seen the last of my face. Why another Spaceballs? It wouldn't feel right to have anyone else play Yoghurt and the first one was the best experience I've had making a movie since Blazing Saddles.

Playbill: When can we expect that?

Mel Brooks: Best case scenario: a week before the new Star Wars opens. Worst Case Scenario: a year after the new star wars opens.

AWESOME - Please let it be so. And please, just plain yogurt. :tup:

[scootbeek]

Looks like they found more money.

[Stumanji]

:rofl:

[Stumanji]

Stumanji's Non-Biased Lightsaber Fighting Ranks
1. Yoda (0-0-2) ties Mace Windu (1-0-0).
3. Count Dooku (Darth Tyranus) (3-1-1) ties Darth Sidious (Palpatine) (3-1-1).
5. Obi-Wan Kenobi (2-2-1)
6. Darth Maul (1-1-1)
7. Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker (2-3-1) ties Luke Skywalker (1-1).
9. Qui-Gon Jinn (0-1-1)
10. Kit Fisto (0-1-0), ties Agen Kolar (0-1-0), and Saesee Tiin (0-1-0)


Explanation:
This is based solely on a Jedi or Sith's skill with a lightsaber in a one-on-one battle against a fellow Jedi or Sith. It is not based on fancy moves (Darth Maul, Yoda) or bad ass appeal (Darth Vader), but rather on the outcome of the fight.
** Both fighters walk away from the fight = DRAW.
** One fighter dies or is injured to an extent that they can no longer defend themselves = LOSS.
** Fighter kills or immobilizes enemy = WIN

1. Yoda ends his two face-offs in a draw. He may have not killed Darth Sidious, but his fight cannot be considered a victory or a loss. Yoda's draw with Dooku (who defeated Skywalker and Kenobi [twice]) puts him ahead of the two Jedi. Mace Windu defeats Darth Sidious (Palpatine), the Sith that ended his match against Yoda in a draw. Considering this, Mace Windu cannot be ranked lower than Yoda.

3. Count Dooku scores two victories over Obi-Wan and one over Skywalker, with a draw against Yoda. He loses to Skywalker in Ep.III. He is clearly better than Kenobi (whom he defeated twice) and therefore is ranked ahead of the Jedi. Darth Sidious cuts down three Jedi in a matter of seconds (Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, and Saesee Tiin) before losing to Mace Windu (I do not consider his actions in this fight as a ploy to lure Anakin in - I believe Sidious was fighting for his life, and Anakin just had good timing). Since Sidious defeated three Jedi and tied Yoda, he ranks equal to Dooku.

5. Obi-Wan defeats Darth Maul (ep. I), loses to Count Dooku twice (ep II and ep III), and defeats Anakin Skywalker (ep III). His "death" in Ep IV must be considered a DRAW, since he was not defeated by, nor did he defeat, Darth Vader. His defeat of Maul and A. Skywalker automatically put him ahead of both.

6. Darth Maul ended one match against Qui-Gon Jinn in a draw, the rematch resulted in a Maul victory, but celebration was cut short, as was Maul by Kenobi's saber.

7. Darth Vader/A. Skywalker loses once to Dooku (ep II), and once to Kenobi (ep. III). He also loses to Luke Skywalker (ep. VI), but nets one victory over his son, Luke Skywalker (ep. V) and one over Count Dooku (ep III). Since Luke was even against his father, they must be even in skill.

9. Qui-Gon Jinn did not win in two fights against Maul.

10. Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, and Saesee Tiin lasted less than 10 seconds in their fight against the Chancellor. Ouch.

[Ender]

The new animated Star Wars looks pretty dumb. :(

[QuietStorm]

You said Mace Windu wasn't on the list even though he clearly was!

[PirateIvan]

I dunno if this was mentioned already in this thread somewhere, and I'm too lazy to find out. I did see that the genneral opinion is that all of the acting sucked royally. I, however, am of the opinion that there was one major saving grace to these films. Two words: Ewan Mcgregor. I felt that he was a perfect young Obi-Wan and pulled it off nicely.

[scumdog]

The new animated Star Wars looks pretty dumb. :(


You become more stupid every time you post. :)

[smor]

I felt that he was a perfect young Obi-Wan and pulled it off nicely.

i agree, liam neilson did a good job as well as qui-gon i thought. although jar-jar ruined that movie so no one will remember that. but ewen was amazing.

[PirateIvan]

i agree, liam neilson did a good job as well as qui-gon i thought. although jar-jar ruined that movie so no one will remember that. but ewen was amazing.

Ahhh yes... Liam Neilson did indeed do a great job. Especially the combination of the two of them as master apprentice.

Also.. you gotta love how right near each other Mr. Neilson had 3 movies where he was a master swordsman instructing the main hero. Starwars Ep. 1, Kingdom of Heaven, and Batman Begins. Lol :) He really knows how to kill 3 birds with one stone.

[Ender]

You become more stupid every time you post. :)

You can't possibly believe that it looks good? First off, there's already been an animated clone wars series (the 2D drawn one) that was bloody awesome, and second their 3D characters look dumb, and the story plot sounds lame, and last but not least LUCASFILM IS BEHIND IT.

[scumdog]

You become more stupid every time you post. :)


First of all the character art looks very similar to the hand animated show, which was awesome story-wise and had a cool look to it, but had pretty shitty animation. Second, the "story" is only a portion of a massive arc that already spans a shit ton of episodes. The "movie" is appearantly just the first 3 or 4 episodes collected into a single film. They are putting it in theaters to kick off the series.

Lastly, you can cry all you want because George Lucas didn't make the prequels to your specifications but it only goes to show that you are not a Star Wars fan. I enjoyed the prequels and every correction* that has been made to the originals and am glad that he is behind the show.


*The only exception being Greedo shooting first; it looks dumb and makes Han a less dynamic character. On the other side of that I still wish he'd go back and fix a ton of the old special effects that weren't even cool back in the day.

[Stumanji]

You said Mace Windu wasn't on the list even though he clearly was!

That's because I copied and pasted the previous rankings before Episode III came out, and simply updated them... and was too stupid to notice my mistake. Whoopsy!!!

Fix'd

[Ender]

If I have to give up being labeled a "fan" because I have some standards for movie making, then I'd rather lose that status. ;)

[scumdog]

Standards like no bad acting or crappy dialogue? That would mean you don't like any of the Star Wars films.

[Ender]

Best to worst:
Ep 5
Ep 6
Ep 1
Ep 4
Ep 3
Ep 2

Ep 5 held up to my standards pretty well. There were some issues that could have been better, but for the most part it held up. Ep 6 had a couple more issues than 5, and Ep 1 had two glaring issues, but aside from that still decent and good enough to enjoy. Ep 1 in fact had a couple of saving graces that made looking past the issues not only possible but relatively easy. Ep 4 starts falling off the deep end (seriously, Han Solo is the only thing that saved it), but Ep 3 defy's all logic (even for a sci-fi movie), and Ep 2 is flat out some of the worst writing/scripting/acting/WHATEVER that has ever existed.

If I have to lose my "fan" status to call that what it is, then so be it. A movie shouldn't be painful to watch.

[scumdog]

You're just arguing with yourself now. That's kinda sad.

[Ender]

Plus, you are dumb.

Please elaborate, because that statment makes no sense.

I am not arguing with myself - I am merely letting you know exactly where the series let me down (Ep 2 and 3). Keep in mind those are the two most recent, so they're in my more recent memory, so I'm a little less sympathetic to the series as a result. And again, the trailer for the new 3D animated one doesn't look promising (it's worth mentioning that the trailer for Ep 2 looked very promising).

I also have to say, the best thing to come about as a result of Ep 3 is the trailer with l33t subtitles.

[scumdog]

You're still going on about this? I've said my piece and now you are arguing with yourself. Give it a rest.

[Ender]

Rofl you tool.

[scumdog]

:) ...Dave seems to be absent so I'm filling in. At least you have QS on another thread demonstrating his severe man-crush for you by jumping in at your defense. I think you're lucky to be a few states away or that dude might just rape your butt.


On the 28th me and this other guy named Ryan are doing Episodes 1-6 back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back. Should be fun. I've already done LotR: EE's back-to-back-to-back...that just leaves Aliens, Indiana Jones (when 4 comes out on disc), and Harry Potter when they finally finish it. Someone suggested the Matrix but #2 is ass and #3 makes the loves scenes in Attack of the Clones seem like Shakespeare.

[Stumanji]

Someone suggested the Matrix but #2 is ass and #3 makes the loves scenes in Attack of the Clones seem like Shakespeare.

Matrix Reloaded is a guilty pleasure for me. From the 100 Smiths fight to the highway scene, to Neo dominating the Merovingian's people, and the fast talking Architect, I find the movie enjoyable.

--- Ender ---

Have you seen the new trailer for the Clone Wars "movie"? (http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1809991325/video/8273357)

I'm not sure what you think, but to me it feels just like the 2D animated Clone Wars series. On top of that, I don't think Lucas has anything to do with this thing (aside from, obviously, producing), so that has to get you a little excited, right?

He didn't write or direct it, so perhaps it'll be a bit better than the prequel trilogy.

On top of that, the actor voicing Anakin Skywalker has the same birthday as me (April 1st), which is neat.

[Ender]

Is that trailer new as of today? If so then no I haven't seen it, but as of yesterday I have seen whatever the newest one was.

And to me, it seems very distant in feel compared to the 2D animated Clone Wars. The new one seems so blah, and the 3D animations have a style that seems like they're trying to copy the 2D animations but make it more like the live actions characters as well, which doesn't translate very well and confuses the overall presentation for me.

Don't get me wrong I'll still see it for sure - I'm just so far not that excited based on what I've seen. I sincerely hope to be proven wrong. And even though Lucas isn't directing or anything, the fact that Lucasfilm is the giant behind it I'm still nervous. Taking a look at what Lucas and Lucasfilm has created over the years and putting it together, there is a strong correlation to how good something is and how old it is (meaning when it was originally created). Star Wars games still haven't reached the pinnacle the X-Wing and TIE Fighter games reached.

[scumdog]

Goddamn, that looks fucking sweet. It's really weird seeing the Warner Bros. logo instead of the 20th Century Fox logo at the start, though.

[PirateIvan]

I dunno Ender... on the subject of Starwars games I gennerally agree, but JK2 was pretty damn amazing. IMO it really set the feel of living a Starwars spinoff movie and the combat was excellent. On the rest of the games that have come out as of late, I agree that they are lacking.

[Ender]

JK2 was one of the best for sure in recent years...but I mean that was back in what, 2002?

[Ender]

Stu - that link isn't pulling anything up for me. I see it lists a "teaser" trailer and an official Theatrical trailer. Apple trailers only has one it calls "Trailer 1" - which of the two is that one? That's the only one I've seen.

[QuietStorm]

Both KotOR games were significantly better than any of the "new" trilogy. (The second game had more potential, but the first game was "better," since it was actually a finished product.)

[Stumanji]

Both KotOR games were significantly better than any of the "new" trilogy. (The second game had more potential, but the first game was "better," since it was actually a finished product.)

The Rogue Squadron games were pretty fun as well.

But, I'd agree. KotOR and it's sequel were pretty much awesome (though the first is head and shoulders above the second, IMO).

[Stumanji]

I'm not sure what you think, but to me it feels just like the 2D animated Clone Wars series. On top of that, I don't think Lucas has anything to do with this thing (aside from, obviously, producing), so that has to get you a little excited, right?

He didn't write or direct it, so perhaps it'll be a bit better than the prequel trilogy.

Never saw the movie. Apparently it was shit.

I was going through my old college notebooks, and I found one with a plot synopsis I wrote for Star Wars: Episode III about two years before Episode III came out. Should I have an internet connection soon (I'm on EWU campus now) I'll share it. It's pretty... intriguing.

(I also found a Halo 2 storyline I wrote well before Halo 2 was released as well).

[Tinbad]

In the last scene, there was some annoying added vocal that sounded like anikin added in... it bugged the hell out of me.