Can't believe this hasn't been done yet...

[scm007]

Bush or Kerry?

[Dr. Deezee]

It's "Kerry."

There's also more than two choices.

[ghrogels]

Originally posted by Dr. Deezee
It's "Kerry."

There's also more than two choices.

LOL
"Nader"
"Libriterian"
"Comunists"
nevar!!!

[Itsmeee]

I'll take whoever gets voted in. Kerry has no backbone, and bush has to much backbone.

I'd like to see ahnold run for pres. He would kick ass! I know there would have to be a lot of changes done, but it would still be cool. I think he is smart, strong willed (though he listens to others), and he is funny. He would make the perfect pres!

[scm007]

.... who cares about those other choices, I mean really? This is a poll to see how BLE swings as far as politics, oh ya BTW can I edit it for a 3rd option?

"Screw voting, they both suck, i.e. Undecided"

[Dr. Deezee]

So a 3rd option doesn't count as politics? Right.

[Ender]

I think I'd vote for Jim Carey if he ran. ;)

[Expunge]

Originally posted by Ender
I think I'd vote for Jim Carey if he ran. ;)

Alrighty then!

Seriously, I would vote Disque for pres. But I see no option for that.

So I will most likely vote Bush, until Kerry finds a way to pull all this money out of his ass to support his free college and heathcare plans.. Haha yeah fucking right... While fixing the national debt? Changing the focus to "International Crime" and adding more enemies to the list? Do we really want to fuck with the Yakuza? :erm:

[Battousai]

Kerry has good things about him too and bushed has already done more than his fair share of damage to our nation. If Bush gets reelected i might have to go on a murdering rampage. I mean seriously you want a guy to run who is going to completely abolish the rights of people? (if he gets what he wants) anyways i dont think kerry is good either but he is better than bush go kerry.

[DiscoDave]

Seriously, I would vote Disque for pres.
Bah, write me in. I've gone over my running platform in great detail with Enduh.

Here's a sample:

#1. No hot tubs that are so small you can only get half of your body at a time.

#2. Only hot chicks get to wear skimpy clothes, and they can't wear anything else.

#3. Cut the fast food pop servings in half, send the other half to Elbonia.

#4. Speeding is encouraged by law. Instead of tickets, you get cash for keeping the economy moving.

#5. Alaska is split in two. South Alaska, and North Alaska with Denali park serving as the dividing line. All politicians and lawyers are to be rounded up and live in North Alaska where two of societies supposedly most educated can create their own little paradise without screwing up everyone else's lives.

[M4LFUNCT10N]

Neither Jim Carrey nor Arnold Schwarzennegar can run. Jim Carrey was born in Canada, and Arnold was born in Austria. Both are dq'd.

[Ender]

Doesn't mean that hypothetically I wouldn't still vote for 'em. ;)

[Expunge]

I heard there were a bunch of idiots pushing for a constitutional amendmant to let foreign born presidents run..

[determined_drew]

Bah, write me in. I've gone over my running platform in great detail with Enduh.

Here's a sample:

#1. No hot tubs that are so small you can only get half of your body at a time.

#2. Only hot chicks get to wear skimpy clothes, and they can't wear anything else.

#3. Cut the fast food pop servings in half, send the other half to Elbonia.

#4. Speeding is encouraged by law. Instead of tickets, you get cash for keeping the economy moving.

#5. Alaska is split in two. South Alaska, and North Alaska with Denali park serving as the dividing line. All politicians and lawyers are to be rounded up and live in North Alaska where two of societies supposedly most educated can create their own little paradise without screwing up everyone else's lives.

#6. We fix the problems in America before we worry about the rest of the world.

DisoDave, you've got my vote :)

[Warder]

I'm not going to vote in this election, Bush has annoyed the f*** outta me, but then again Kerry has that whole thing going about "being a veteran" in a war he did nothing but bitch and fight AGAINST and his wife...she has her own agendas that aren't my cup of tea. I don't trust either of them with the future of the U.S. so I determined my vote would not go to either.

[Expunge]

Vote Libertarian.

[Tha[\]atos]

I'm not going to vote in this election

Just don't let me hear you complain about how you hate whoever get's voted in. if you don't vote you have no room to talk. (I'm still kicking myself for not voteing in the last one)

[DiscoDave]

Vote Libertarian.
Yea. Fit in with 2% of your peers.


:erm:

[Warder]

I won't complain about who gets voted in, because I don't want either of them the same...hence why I'm using my choice to not vote. If it is one or the other, I can but pray they do the best they can for the United States

[Expunge]

Yea. Fit in with 2% of your peers.


:erm:
Yes. :p

[Verbal]

I SHALL VOTE FOR RALPH FREAKING NADER!!!!!!!!!!


Oh wait, I can't vote... :confuina:

[Jobe16]

Warder, can I have your vote?

[Warder]

and you are voting for?

[hockeysnipermlg]

well, i personally as a democrat (even though i cant vote) would vote for kerry, and my dad whos a republican: well, heres a direct quote

"I SO want to vote for president Bush... but hes SUCH an idiot."

:tup:

[Stumanji]

Kerry has no backbone, and bush has to much backbone.

I don't get this statement. Is having a backbone about courage? Courage - like standing up to something even though you're afraid of it? Like, say, going to Vietnam to fight in a war? And if that's the case, isn't avoiding the same war considered a lack of courage or backbone?

As much as the Bush machine will like to paint John Kerry as a coward - someone who didn't earn his medals in war - someone who lied about his service over at Vietnam - someone who committed war crimes - et cetera...

Keep in mind that Bush was on active duty during the same war and didn't go.

PS - This is funny. (http://www.jibjab.com/default.asp)

[Verbal]

lol Stuey I don't think Dan was talking at all about the Vietnam war :p Who gives a crap what they did 30 years ago??

[Jobe16]

and you are voting for?

I wish I were 18 because I would vote for Kerry, but unfortunatley I ain't 18 :(

[ghrogels]

Yea. Fit in with 2% of your peers.


:erm:

its more like 10%. but they never teach anyone in school what a liberiterian is, so know one knows that they are one untill they find out some place else.

kinda like being gay...:erm:

[icdragon]

I'd vote for Bush, but those dicks say I'm a week too young (Nov 13th) to vote in the next election... Arggh! :burst:

[Expunge]

I don't get this statement. Is having a backbone about courage? Courage - like standing up to something even though you're afraid of it? Like, say, going to Vietnam to fight in a war? And if that's the case, isn't avoiding the same war considered a lack of courage or backbone?

As much as the Bush machine will like to paint John Kerry as a coward - someone who didn't earn his medals in war - someone who lied about his service over at Vietnam - someone who committed war crimes - et cetera...

Keep in mind that Bush was on active duty during the same war and didn't go.

PS - This is funny. (http://www.jibjab.com/default.asp)
Lied about service in Nam? War crimes? What?

How do you commit a war crime without going to war?

PS There are plenty of people who stay home while they're on active duty, not like it's their choice anyway.

Also: By backbone he meant going after terrorists because they seriously fucked with us, so we went after them.

[Stumanji]

Yeah... but the link was funny, right?

[Expunge]

Yeah... but the link was funny, right?
Yes it was lol.

[determined_drew]

2004 Election Voter Guide

Depending on the way you lean, the following information could have bearing on decisions you make November 2004.

Gay Marriage
President Bush is opposed
John Kerry favors
Partial-Birth Abortion
President Bush is opposed
John Kerry favors
Restoring voluntary prayer in the public schools
President Bush Favors
John Kerry is Opposed
Assault on Mel Gibson for making film about Christ
President Bush supports Gibson
John Kerry participated in Left's assault on Gibson, suggesting possible anti-Semitism even though Kerry had not seen the film.
Assault on boy Scouts for belief in God and not allowing Homosexual Scout Leaders
President Bush supports Boy Scouts' stand
John Kerry opposes boy Scouts' stand
Asking for God's blessing on America
President Bush often asks God to bless America in his speeches
John Kerry attacks Bush for mentioning God so often
Judges
President Bush says "We need common-sense judges who believe our rights are derived from God."
John Kerry insists on judges who support the ACLU's anti-Christian, anti-God,anti-family agenda. John Kerry is insistent on blocking President Bush's federal judge appointments.
Overall Record
President Bush does not vote on issues before Congress but, based on his publicly stated positions, would receive an 85% conservative rating from the American Conservative Union if he did.
John Kerry, according to the highly respected, politically-neutral National Journal rates Kerry the most liberal U. S. Senator in 2003 -- more liberal than Ted Kennedy and Hillary Clinton.

[Stumanji]

2004 Election Voter Guide

Depending on the way you lean, the following information could have bearing on decisions you make November 2004.

Gay Marriage
President Bush is opposed
John Kerry favors
Partial-Birth Abortion
President Bush is opposed
John Kerry favors
Restoring voluntary prayer in the public schools
President Bush Favors
John Kerry is Opposed
Assault on Mel Gibson for making film about Christ
President Bush supports Gibson
John Kerry participated in Left's assault on Gibson, suggesting possible anti-Semitism even though Kerry had not seen the film.
Assault on boy Scouts for belief in God and not allowing Homosexual Scout Leaders
President Bush supports Boy Scouts' stand
John Kerry opposes boy Scouts' stand
Asking for God's blessing on America
President Bush often asks God to bless America in his speeches
John Kerry attacks Bush for mentioning God so often
Judges
President Bush says "We need common-sense judges who believe our rights are derived from God."
John Kerry insists on judges who support the ACLU's anti-Christian, anti-God,anti-family agenda. John Kerry is insistent on blocking President Bush's federal judge appointments.
Overall Record
President Bush does not vote on issues before Congress but, based on his publicly stated positions, would receive an 85% conservative rating from the American Conservative Union if he did.
John Kerry, according to the highly respected, politically-neutral National Journal rates Kerry the most liberal U. S. Senator in 2003 -- more liberal than Ted Kennedy and Hillary Clinton.

I question the source of this information - it's as if they didn't listen to any of the debates or prior speeches from either candidate, and completely over-simplified the views.

[Expunge]

Not only that, but I think those are really lame reasons for putting down a vote. What really matters down the road is what should be pushed forward, not whether or not Sam and Joe can get married in 'Frisco

[DiscoDave]

lol...according to that, I agree with Kerry 100%.

[scm007]

I like how they try to make Kerry sound bad, but he still sounds better to me lol.

John Kerry insists on judges who support the ACLU's anti-Christian, anti-God,anti-family agenda.

LOL, spin-doctoring is fun, from both sides. Anti-God, anti-family, lol.

[determined_drew]

Once again, this election comes down to which candidate you don't want to be President. I don't like the influence that Saudi Arabia has had on Bush and the rest of our goverment, but regardless of who is President that influence will still be there. I do like the fact that Bush is pro-life, against gay "marriage", and for restoring voluntary prayer in public schools. I don't like the fact that Kerry is pro-"choice"(murder), for gay "marriage", and against restoring voluntary prayer in public schools. I want a president who sees terrorism as a threat, not a "nuisance" (http://www.georgewbush.com/News/MultiMedia/VideoPlayer.aspx?ID=1077&T=2). So on November 2nd, I'm going to vote for the American (http://www.georgewbush.com/Blog/) candidate, not the Viet Cong (http://www.vietcongcandidate.com/index.php?p=57#more-57) candidate.

[Verbal]

Well said Drew. :tup:

ps you rawk

[night3218]

My thoughts:

Abortion :shrug: If its early enough, yes, but if its more than 3 months into the pregnancy and the fetus has already developed, thats pretty much murder.


Gay Marriage: :no: . Marriage is a sacred, holy experience that should be had with a man and a woman. Sure, let gays date and kiss or do whatever gay couples do, but dont invade us straight peoples marriage. It was not meant for gays. And I have actually seen excerpts from the bible itself that directly discourage two men getting married.


Voluntary Prayer in schools: :yes: Yes. As long as it doesent take up class time that would normally be spent learning and getting work done, students should be able to and have the right to pray when and where they want and should not be told where they can or cant pray. That is their choice, their right as a person living in america, and should not be taken away from them.

[Verbal]

Actually Night in the Bible it says homosexuality itself is wrong, not gay marriage. In fact, marriage was turned into more of a religious thing much later by the Romans. Before it was more just legal issues. But I agree with you in concept.

[SuperDude]

The reason gays want to get married is to get the benefits of marriage, whats wrong with that?

Discrimination is ok? I was taught otherwise.

[Excessive]

As far as I know there is no rule against praying in school. Just that the school is not allowed to endorse it, set aside time for it, or lead it in any way. but nothing is stoping a student from praying during a break or lunch.

[ghrogels]

on the subject of abortion, the right has gone too far with it

first they were like: "women should not be allowed to abort"
then they were like: "women shouldn't be allowed to abort, but cause the supreame court says they can, we won't allow partial-birth abortions"
then they are like: "oks, even if a overy doesn't meet sperm, you are not allowed to use stem cells for research."

where does this stop: "don't touch DNA, even if it cures cancer."

come on, get a life.

[ghrogels]

come on, get a life.

lol, note the ironry

[Verbal]

Duff Man for teh win! :woot:

[icdragon]

The reason gays want to get married is to get the benefits of marriage, whats wrong with that?

Discrimination is ok? I was taught otherwise.

People of various races are equal.
Men and women are equal (different biologically, but equal as humans).
Sexuality is a different topic altogether. In terms of biology, we are designed to mate with the opposite sex, as are most other organisms on Earth (how many is not the issue here), not with each other. That's why mating with others of our own sex doesn't produce anything! Homosexuality goes against nature, it is a corruption of reproduction and why we are given sexual organs that match with the opposite pieces, as in a puzzle. We should not reward homosexuals with benefits to their spouses, that simply takes away from those who partner up with the appropriate sex with the main intention of producing offspring.

Summary:
male + female = child *CORRECT!*
male + male = nothing *INCORRECT* (please try again!)
They are not designed to go together. Deviant behavior of this kind should be avoided and looked down upon, not accepted and rewarded with rights to marriage!

[DiscoDave]

*sigh* You make Richard Simmons very sad.

[icdragon]

*sigh*

Tiring, isn't it? Tires me out to see people disagree with me when it seems so simple and clearcut to me. *shrug* Part of being human I suppose.

[Dr. Deezee]

male + male = keep the population down = CORRECT!

More people = faster decay of the environment

Homosexuality = nature's way of keeping the population down.

Argue THAT.

[hockeysnipermlg]

guns=the REAL way to keep the population down :yes:






jk, let them do what they want, just not to me

[icdragon]

male + male = keep the population down = CORRECT!

More people = faster decay of the environment

Homosexuality = nature's way of keeping the population down.

Argue THAT.

It's called birth control and education. Get some of each.
Seriously, what you're saying is that homosexuality is a safe way to get off, and that's pretty stupid.

Save the population
indulge in masturbation.

Or that!

[Verbal]

Save the population
indulge in masturbation.

[hockeysnipermlg]

but that kills puppies and kittens!

[Dr. Deezee]

It's called birth control and education. Get some of each.
Seriously, what you're saying is that homosexuality is a safe way to get off, and that's pretty stupid.
You're refusing to accept the fact that humans were created by nature. The brain is a part of our nature. Our brains decide for us whether we are heterosexual.

You're trying to say that man made institutions (birth control and education) are the "natural" way to control the population.

I will not resort to your tactics and call you stupid ;)

[DiscoDave]

Tiring, isn't it? Tires me out to see people disagree with me when it seems so simple and clearcut to me. *shrug* Part of being human I suppose.
Actually, I disagree with you to the extent that those arguments are disturbing to what little faith in the goodness mankind I have left.

[ghrogels]

male + male = keep the population down = CORRECT!

More people = faster decay of the environment

Homosexuality = nature's way of keeping the population down.

Argue THAT.

DZ, the population is projected to go down, so much so that even I, a pro-choice supporter, am in favor of making it illegal.

right now, the dependency ratio is getting too high, that it will be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO easy to get a job in the future, it won't even be funny, it may even cause global instibility (like a depression). We are going to have real issues keeping all those baby boomers alive.

Most developed countries are right about the 2.13 births per women. That is only enough to replenish the current population. And right now in Africa, where the births per women is highest, it is fastly coming down because of proper controception being avalible to all.

but i digress.

[icdragon]

Actually, I disagree with you to the extent that hearing those arguments are disturbing to what faith in mankind I have.

Funny, I lost my faith in mankind after a few years of living in the US :yes:

But that's a different topic altogether.

ps: I wasn't calling you stupid, just the reasoning you used to arrive at that statement.

[Verbal]

If you are arguing that any decision our brain makes is natural, thereby making it okay, that's totally wacked. And not wiggidy wack, just regular type. According to that logic, I can decide to murder my family and because it's a choice my natural brain made it's ok. :bulb:

[Dr. Deezee]

The reasoning behind your arguement is likewise flawed... if it weren't natural then why is it a process that occurs NATURALLY in the human brain?

I don't particularly agree with the arguement that homosexuality is nature's way to control the population, I'm just trying to demonstrate that any moronic idea someone comes up with can be argued to some degree of success ;)

Please, people, be mindful of your rhetoric. Words shape reality whether you'd like to believe it or not, you should be careful of what you say and how it affects the world that you live in.

[Dr. Deezee]

If you are arguing that any decision our brain makes is natural, thereby making it okay, that's totally wacked. And not wiggidy wack, just regular type. According to that logic, I can decide to murder my family and because it's a choice my natural brain made it's ok. :bulb:
"thereby making it okay" is a point of contention that can never be won. Who decides what is right and wrong? "God?" What if you don't believe in "God?" The President? Is that right?

I'm simply aruging that it occurs in the brain and is therefore "natural" (something that occurs in nature).

::EDIT:: Whether or not it is "right or wrong" will be different for most every single person on the planet. There will (in my eyes) never be a time when all of humanity decides it is either or. Therefore, you should just learn to accept that people can and will be different. Why are gays becoming the new blacks? Didn't we learn our civil rights lessons in the 60's? Apparently not.

[icdragon]

If you are arguing that any decision our brain makes is natural, thereby making it okay, that's totally wacked. And not wiggidy wack, just regular type. According to that logic, I can decide to murder my family and because it's a choice my natural brain made it's ok. :bulb:

Good point, that argument is like saying "It's a free country, I can do what I want". I hate it when the uncle in Napoleon Dynamite says that. Ignorant asshole!

[hockeysnipermlg]

but that "naturally" occuring process in the brain can be because of neurons misfiring, which isnt natural...

[Dr. Deezee]

but that "naturally" occuring process in the brain can be the cause of neurons misfiring, which isnt natural...
Sure it's natural. It's not "normal" but it's natural.

nat·u·ral Audio pronunciation of "natural" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nchr-l, nchrl)
adj.

1. Present in or produced by nature: a natural pearl.

[SuperDude]

Sigh, I had a nice response typed, then I accidentally hit ESC which made it go away and I couldnt bring it back.

In short, I think that it is incorrect for someone (or a group of people) to impose their belief on others. Homosexuality isnt a person's choice, its natural, so why should it be discriminated?

[icdragon]

Sigh, I had a nice response typed, then I accidentally hit ESC which made it go away and I couldnt bring it back.

In short, I think that it is incorrect for someone (or a group of people) to impose their belief on others. Homosexuality isnt a person's choice, its natural, so why should it be discriminated?

Many claim it IS THEIR CHOICE. If I were Christian, I would call them heathens.

[Verbal]

Oh for pete's sake, I'm not saying gays have to take a different bus, eat in different places, and have special schools. I'm not even saying that I'm completely against gay marriage, actually. I'm against homosexuality, not homosexuals. Big difference. If they want to get married, fine. Just don't have it associated with the church... go through a judge. It is strictly against Christianity in every shape and form. That's all I was getting at.

[Dr. Deezee]

Many claim it IS THEIR CHOICE. If I were Christian, I would call them heathens.
Does that make you right?

[hockeysnipermlg]

i guess were thinking of different naturals. was that from dictionary.com?

3. Conforming to the usual or ordinary course of nature: a natural death.
8. Expected and accepted

neurons misfiring arent natural according to those two explanations. but they are in your context.

[icdragon]

Does that make you right?

This is infantile.

i guess were thinking of different naturals. was that from dictionary.com?

3. Conforming to the usual or ordinary course of nature: a natural death.
8. Expected and accepted

neurons misfiring arent natural according to those two explanations. but they are in your context.

Exactly.

[Dr. Deezee]

Oh for pete's sake, I'm not saying gays have to take a different bus, eat in different places, and have special schools. I'm not even saying that I'm completely against gay marriage, actually. I'm against homosexuality, not homosexuals. Big difference. If they want to get married, fine. Just don't have it associated with the church... go through a judge. It is strictly against Christianity in every shape and form. That's all I was getting at.
You compared homosexuals to people who murdered their family by saying they justify themselves with the same type of logic. Again, beware of your rhetoric.

[Verbal]

Sigh, I had a nice response typed, then I accidentally hit ESC which made it go away and I couldnt bring it back.

In short, I think that it is incorrect for someone (or a group of people) to impose their belief on others. Homosexuality isnt a person's choice, its natural, so why should it be discriminated?

There's a group of ex-homosexuals who go around holding seminars and support groups and stuff, and they say that it isn't natural. It was a choice they made. I refuse to believe that someone is born homosexual. It just goes against my beliefs. I'm speaking strictly from a Biblical sense here, mind you: God would not punish anyone for something they were born with; In the Bible it actually says that any man who lies with another is to be put to death. Does that make it sound like it's natural? I think not. But like I said, that's from a Biblical standpoint, and I can't hold non-Christians to Christian standards.

[Verbal]

You compared homosexuals to people who murdered their family by saying they justify themselves with the same type of logic. Again, beware of your rhetoric.

I'm not comparing them, I was using your argument against you, basically. I'm saying if you can say that it's ok to do something because it is a choice made by your brain and your brain is natural, then that's really flawed logic.

[icdragon]

There's a group of ex-homosexuals who go around holding seminars and support groups and stuff, and they say that it isn't natural. It was a choice they made. I refuse to believe that someone is born homosexual. It just goes against my beliefs. I'm speaking strictly from a Biblical sense here, mind you: God would not punish anyone for something they were born with; In the Bible it actually says that any man who lies with another is to be put to death. Does that make it sound like it's natural? I think not. But like I said, that's from a Biblical standpoint, and I can't hold non-Christians to Christian standards.

With this I agree. I don't believe there is a god, but I do believe the bible contains certain morals within it which should be observed by all.
Do not plant your seed where it shall bear no fruit.

[DiscoDave]

Virtually every mammal on the planet exhibits homosexuality, to varying degrees. I don't think one can really question if it's natural or not.

[Dr. Deezee]

i guess were thinking of different naturals. was that from dictionary.com?

3. Conforming to the usual or ordinary course of nature: a natural death.
8. Expected and accepted

neurons misfiring arent natural according to those two explanations. but they are in your context.
My context for "natural" all along has been pertaining to nature, because someone said that it wasn't "natural" from a biological standpoint which I took to mean that they didn't think it was right IN nature.

This is infantile.
Hardly. You implied that if you were a Christian, it would make it right for you to call other people heathens and generally add strength to your argument that homosexuality is wrong. That's infantile -- thinking you're better than someone just because you belong to a certain group.

It's fine for Christians to believe homosexuality is okay so long as they don't discriminate against homosexuals, but when you start comparing them to murderers and saying that they're defects of nauture etc, you're crossing a line and dehumanizing someone. I personally don't like homosexuality but I also respect that each person has the right to choose how they want to live their own life. In this regard, America [is] a free country, meant to be a safe haven for you to practice whatever belief you wanted to and have perhaps the highest quality of life of anywhere in the world. What gives YOU the right to take that right, guaranteed in the constitution, away from other people?

[Dr. Deezee]

I'm not comparing them, I was using your argument against you, basically. I'm saying if you can say that it's ok to do something because it is a choice made by your brain and your brain is natural, then that's really flawed logic.
So you completely didn't understand my arguement then? That's good to know. I don't have the time to do this for every time you choose to not read a post, but:

"thereby making it okay" is a point of contention that can never be won. Who decides what is right and wrong? "God?" What if you don't believe in "God?" The President? Is that right?

I'm simply aruging that it occurs in the brain and is therefore "natural" (something that occurs in nature).

[icdragon]

From observing nature we can deduce what is right and wrong. It's not that difficult.

[Dr. Deezee]

With this I agree. I don't believe there is a god, but I do believe the bible contains certain morals within it which should be observed by all.
Do not plant your seed where it shall bear no fruit.
Why should the bible be the standard for all humanity to live by? Do I need to bring up the horrible things that the bible has caused, like the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition?

Yet you call me infantile.

[Dr. Deezee]

From observing nature we can deduce what is right and wrong. It's not that difficult.
Some people do that and some don't. You seem to forget that other people exist in the world with different beliefs than your own. Who decides what is universally acceptable and unacceptable?

[icdragon]

Why should the bible be the standard for all humanity to live by? Do I need to bring up the horrible things that the bible has caused, like the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition?

Yet you call me infantile.

"Certain elements of it." Forum debates are limited are even more ineffective than face-to-face debates (verbal communication being ineffective in itself). Bye!

ps: I still believe I'm right :)

[Dr. Deezee]

Some other interesting points to consider:

If you believe that homosexuality is a choice and therefore not natural... what's the other side of that choice? Just like how a coin has two faces (it can either land heads or tails), a choice implies that there was another CHOICE they could've made. This choice is heterosexuality. So if homosexuality is a choice, how does that exclude heterosexuality from being a choice? How does that make homosexuality less natural?

Also, what about heterosexual men who enjoy anal sex with women? How is that fundamentally different from sex with another man? I mean, sure, it's with the opposite gender, but it's still wasting seed or whatever rhetoric it was that you used.

[Dr. Deezee]

ps: I still believe I'm right :)
So long as this belief does not lead you to do something like start a Crusade, I don't care whether or not you believe you're right ;)

[Dr. Deezee]

If you are arguing that any decision our brain makes is natural, thereby making it okay, that's totally wacked. And not wiggidy wack, just regular type. According to that logic, I can decide to murder my family and because it's a choice my natural brain made it's ok. :bulb:
Actually, the more I think about this, why is it wacky logic? Again, it all boils down to this: Why do you Christians think that you have the divine right to assert your own set of morals and ethics on every other person/group/country in the world?

There are plenty of instances where the majority hasn't been "right" from even your own standpoint. Again I bring up the Crusades and Spanish Inquisition. Didn't Jesus die to save people for their sins? Well then, doesn't that refer directly back to pretty much everyone in the old Testament? Didn't Jesus die to save them because they had it all wrong? Isn't that where most of the anti-homosexuality rhetoric comes from?

::EDIT:: What about the line that says "Love your enemy as you love yourself?" I think it actually says "Love your enemy even more than you love yourself" but I don't have a bible handy. Perhaps you could check for me? ;)

[DiscoDave]

From observing nature we can deduce what is right and wrong. It's not that difficult.
It may not be that difficult for you to form your own deductions on what is right or wrong from observing nature. Part of the purpose of America is for you to be able to create your own opinions on whatever you like without fear of punishment or discrimination. This does not give you entitlement to restrict the activities of other people at will.

That said, there are times when you can, and must, restrict the activities of other people...namely, when someone is being victimized. If someone wishes to steal, murder, or rape, then tough...doing so would harm someone, thus it cannot be allowed as much as they'd like to do so.

Allowing gays to marry doesn't harm anyone. It may OFFEND you, and it certainly won't be the first time that someone has been offended by giving equal rights to people, but it doesn't harm you...and this is what I find so disturbing about people who are against gay marrage.

I understand people screwing other people over for personal gain. I've accepted that as normal human behavior and even done it myself (obviously I try not to). But that's not what this is. You don't want to screw over the gays because you get something out of it...you want to screw over gays just for the hell of it. Preventing a couple from having the same rights you do to enter a legal union with whomever it is they love does not benefit you, yet here they are, still prevented.

This, to me, is one of the most disturbing traits of humanity I've ever wtinessed.

I'm done with this topic.

[Dr. Deezee]

Bah, Disco said it better than I ever could have. :applause:

[SuperDude]

Yes, Dave said it best.

Topic done.

[scm007]

I'd say Oprahtifa (and Richard Simmons) took the debate this time. Whoever the hell that is, these new names are annoying the hell out of me.

[scm007]

700!

[Dr. Deezee]

I'd say Oprahtifa took the debate this time. Whoever the hell that is, these new names are annoying the hell out of me.
Deezee :p

[Verbal]

Jeez guys enough already. We all seem to be twisting each other's words and it seems we're not capable of just shutting up and moving on. Let me be the first to suggest a freaking subject change!

[determined_drew]

Everyone should watch Stolen Honor: Wounds That Never Heal (http://stolenhonor.com/documentary/watch-video.asp). Do you want this "man" to be our Commander in Chief?

[Dr. Deezee]

Everyone should watch Stolen Honor: Wounds That Never Heal (http://stolenhonor.com/documentary/watch-video.asp). Do you want this "man" to be our Commander in Chief?
You can use the same exact argument with any other movie title (everyone should watch Farenheit 9/11! Do you want this "man" to be our Commander in Chief?) and get the same results for the opposite side. Gonna have to try a little bit harder than that ;)

[determined_drew]

...everyone should watch Farenheit 9/11!

Actually, everyone should watch
FarenHYPE 9/11 (http://www.fahrenhype911.com/).

;)

[Dr. Deezee]

That's the perfect example. For any political-oriented movie, there's a counter movie.

I say we do away with the two party system in favor of a "no" party system, but then again, I'm pretty sure I outlined that elsewhere. The two party system is tearing our country right down the middle. :no:

[determined_drew]

:burst:

[ghrogels]

if this thread doesn't get some semblance of respectability in the next 10 posts, it is done, well cooked, over, locked.

[Excessive]

Didn't we loose a whole forum because of this debate? Why is it being debated again?

[ghrogels]

people love to argue till the beat the dogg dead.
too bad i didn't see it untill now, there is some nasty stuff back there.
it starts getting bad @ page 4; people, can't you keep yourselves in line?

[Stumanji]

Did anyone see the new South Park, last night?

South Park Elementary is holding an election - the two top nominees are a Giant Douche and a Turd Sandwich.

Stan: "I'm not voting."

Family: "Why not?"

Stan: "Because the election is between a Giant Douche and a Turd Sandwich. When you have to choose between a Giant Douche and a Turd Sandwich, it just doesn't seem worth it."
---------------------------------------------------------

Basically my sentiments about the election. But, this time around I'll be voting for the Giant Douche (Kerry) instead of the Turd Sandwich (Bush).

[Stupid]

lol yeah i did, i love sputhpark :hug:

[determined_drew]

I question the source of this information - it's as if they didn't listen to any of the debates or prior speeches from either candidate, and completely over-simplified the views.

Here (http://www.grassfire.org/scorebook/contents.asp) is the Grassfire.org (http://www.grassfire.org/index.htm) scorebook which shows where each candidate stands on major issues. This is taken from the candidates quotes and votes. It's not biased or manipulated information.

[Dr. Deezee]

It's not biased or manipulated information.

Grassfire.org has already become one of the most innovative and impactful online, conservative organizations in the country

Uhhh...

[determined_drew]

The website is a conservative website. The information in the scorebook is quotes and votes from the candidates. So, as I said before, the information is not biased or manipulated.

[scm007]

Just so you guys know, I voted LIBERTARIAN. Both suck IMO. Although I think Kerry is slightly less sucky. If this state wasn't so democratic I MIGHT have voted that way, I don't know though.

[hockeysnipermlg]

@ costco the other day, i saw an actual lady that looked like John Kerry. i almost did a double take, and then i realized how scary it was, and walked a little faster